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Saturday, 10 May 2008

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RMacleod

The twists and turns in Zimbabwe African politics continue, it is suggested by a prof Eldred Masunungure that if Tsvangirai
boycotts the presidential election there will be a leadership change in the MDC.

Now it is revealed, Tsvangirai was once a political commissar in Zanu PF and even praised Mugabe in 2004, perhaps a change would be beneficial.

MacPayne

To be candid, I question whether Mugabe is really even in control anymore. I wonder if the military and and (un)civil authorities are actually the ones "running the show", and what we have is, in fact, a defacto junta...

Forgive me if that sounds negative, but I just fear Mugabe has created a monster that even he no longer controls... or perhaps, one he doesn't need or want to control. Is it possible Mugabe and the ZANPF have created such a situation where armed resistance is the only answer.

Those guys at the mid-level don't have to be told who and where to direct the attacks to please the Devil-in-command... they know what has to happen to maintain the status quo, and keep their own positions... and they've proven they'll even use murder as a weapon. I'm thankful that accounts and details are being kept so that when all's said and done, swift justice will prevail throughout all the land at the hand of a legal court, rightful testimonies, and a rope.

Unfortunately, there'll be no help from the UN, for fear the Mugabe's of the world will accuse them of being "lackeys of the West", and SADC will continue their complicity for fear of having to admit before the world that their black African "hero" is nothing more than a terrorist tyrant thug who is much worse than the one he deposed.

For Zimbabwe.

Michael

I hate to say it, but did we really expect anything less from RGM?

RM .... yes, that was disturbing news, how much different can we expect from someone who has been within the system (That includes both Tsvangirai and Makoni). But they should of course be given a chance without prejudice to prove whether they are a product of their previous alleigance or not.

mac .... The UN will be talking about 'doing something' long after the elections are over, after all it's what they're best at, talking. Also, I can understand what you're saying when you say that the SADC don't want to admit that Mugabe is worse than Smith .... but realistically, for all his faults, Smith was far superior in the respect that he actually cared about the country .... and back to the fact that despite the war, life was actually safer for most back then.

I never believed that I'd actually hear myself say this about Zimbabwe, but it's getting to the point where a civil war may actually be of benefit, as long as it resulted in the removal of Mugabe .... and bearing in mind that I think civil war is the very last resort in any situation, it should say how desperate I believe the situation has become .... almost to the point of no return

MacPayne

Michael, I'd been thinking that very thing myself for awhile... just didn't want to say it aloud.

Unfortunately, there are a number of Mugabe-like figures around the globe who would send plane-loads of equipment, supplies, and even troops to back RGM... while, of course, the UN meets time and again trying to settle on the wording of a condemnation of such actions... and the SADC sits on its hands disengaged, concerned only about the impact on their own economy.

After all, there is no crisis in Zimbabwe...

Michael

At the moment you are 100% correct, there is no crisis in Zimbabwe.

At the moment, as long as RGM stays in power, the crisis IS Zimbabwe.

DC

Pressure? What pressure? The only ones under pressure are the ordinary Zimbabwean people. The ones who Thabo said should be allowed to 'choose their own destiny' and now are being denied that very right - by Thabo.

Thabo and SADC will do everything in there power to string this whole charade out to ZANU-PF's advantage. It doesn't matter if Mugabe is in charge or is just a front for the military takeover. Remember he is the one who formed and imposed the JOC which runs the country. The bottom line is, Thabo still prefers this to a democratically elected government.

The run-off? More like crawl-off. It will be in one year's time - if ever. ZANU-PF will not allow the ZEC to set the date because they will not provide the funding. 21 days by law? Yeah right when have ZANU-PF ever worried about such trivialities.

Thank you for spelling it out Michael. I have been making veiled references to that myself for weeks now here and on my own site. Let me spell it out again: THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL OR LEGAL WAY TO CHANGE THE REGIME IN ZIMBABWE. That leaves only one option.

The problem is this: who supports the freedom fighters? Who gives them an operational base? Thabo will definately put the SADF behind ZANU-PF and SADC will follow. Who supplies training and arms to the freedom fighters? The West? Get ready for the storm of protest from the 'sovereign African states' should that ever happen.

Michael

Unfortunately, when the Bush War of the 70's was going on, what the real freedom fighters (and yes, there were those who actually believed in the free Zimbabwe that has never raised its head) did not realise is that they were being led by terrorists ..... and that has not changed to this day.

The sad fact of the matter is that the only way to remove someone who chooses to live by ways of violence and terror to the point of creating a near dictatorship is to do so by force. Historical precedents are rife ..... Napoleon, Hitler, Milosovic ..... all of them were, to their minds, all powerful ..... and all of them had to be toppled by force.

Freedom fighters being used against Mugabe would be quite ironic, but as DC says, where would the funding, arms and training come from?

Russia, Korea and China? They were the suppliers to Mugabe during the 70's and I believe both still maintain relations so they're out.

And who does that leave?

Again as DC correctly points out, it leaves the ones that are firmly camped against Mugabe ..... the Western hand that put him in power and fed him in the late 70's and early 80's (when ironically he had very little to say against them) that he was so happy to bite in the 90's.

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